george w. bush's debate was a disaster. i don't think it will be a disaster. but you saw on the univision interview. when you are abe incumbent president you are not used to being challenged. bill: what do you think the impact of a potential exchange like we just watched will have on this 15% rasmussen is talking about? >> rich is right. it depends on what it is. there was another debate moment in 2008 that seemed to change the trajectory a little bit. remember when hillary was told people don't like her and she said that hurts my feelings and it was kind of like funny, self-deprecating moment, and it seemed to move women voters in a way. you can't ever really know. there could just be some sort of moment that moves people in a certain direction, though. i think the bigger issue is mitt romney making people feel like i'm a goodall tern tough to obama. you are not that happy with him or you wouldn't be undecide or persuadable. but i'm safe. i'm somebody you can trust with the future. bill: the audience is enormous. 50 million americans will watch this. this is